Curse

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 16, 2010, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Codex arena is actually pretty crowded on zquest days, it's pretty dead on other days though, anyway the problems with CA are the same problems with all of GW PvP, lack of population.

urania · Jan 16, 2010, 07:04 PM // 19:04

a 4 yo game+no skill balance that'd really balance things out+badly thought-out new content/removing some of game's content=lack of population, amirite?

Reverend Dr · Jan 16, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

A game that every expansion increased the money and time commitment to even start learning how to play, is not getting new players? Tell me more.

HB Fails Now · Jan 16, 2010, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Well obviously it is getting some new players but I would say that the amount of players that quit overshadows it. This new codex arena may have brought some players back but after they tried it out, most of them immediately quit again.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 17, 2010, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB Fails Now

Well obviously it is getting some new players but I would say that the amount of players that quit overshadows it. This new codex arena may have brought some players back but after they tried it out, most of them immediately quit again.

It's safe to say that Hero Battles didn't bring anyone back.

HB Fails Now · Jan 17, 2010, 10:56 PM // 22:56

This isn't hero battles this is codex arena, and hero battles was way more popular than codex arena.

DreamWind · Jan 18, 2010, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB Fails Now

This isn't hero battles this is codex arena, and hero battles was way more popular than codex arena.

I wouldn't consider either popular in the slightest. In my opinion both were/are dead.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 18, 2010, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB Fails Now

This isn't hero battles this is codex arena, and hero battles was way more popular than codex arena.

Guild Wars was way more popular when Hero Battles were implemented than it is now.

isildorbiafra · Jan 18, 2010, 09:30 AM // 09:30

O, I remeber this thread. OP is without a doubt clairvoiant. CA= R.I.P.

I feel a big:"I told you so" coming up.

I Jonas I · Jan 18, 2010, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Guild Wars was way more popular when Hero Battles were implemented than it is now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 18, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

Suppose hero battles never existed and was implemented instead of CA with no ladder and tournament support, do you really think it wouldn't be 'dead' now?

I Jonas I · Jan 19, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Hero Battles would be (and is) less dead than Codex. In a game with a lazy player base that doesn't like set up times, Codex is the wrong format to introduce this late in the game. Like what made people play TA over HA is that it takes 4 less people to play and it's set up time is much more reasonable. Codex does not share the 2nd advantage.

If Hero Battles were introduced now, I think the single-player aspect of it would be appealing to players that, for instance:

1) don't like pugging for groups in organized PvP
2) don't have enough friends online to get an HA or GvG group together
3) hate RA and PvE

Back when I did Hero Battles it was pretty fun, but a lot of players were discouraged by it's steep learning curve and abundance of "gimmick" builds. To be fair Capway and Backbreaker Assassinway weren't much fun to play against, but it really wasn't as bad as a lot of people say that it was. A few simple AI fixes and skill tweaks (disabling teleport skills, nerfing backbreaker correctly, preventing more than 1 of each class from entering on each time to prevent the backbreaker +3 defensive character builds, prevent healers from running away from their shrine to heal people that are at no risk of dying, etc) would have made it playable again.

Pretty much the same could be said for TA. With the high learning curve and gimmick builds such as Shovespike and Hexway appearing with depressingly high frequency, it's clear to see why some people were put off by TA. But again, a few skill balances would have made it more fun to play (make soulstone strike and it's clone cost 10e, make apply poison only affect bows, tone down soul bind and empathy a tad, etc).

Like it really wasn't that hard to fix the formats that people were complaining about, Anet just didn't want to.

Div · Jan 19, 2010, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Anet just needs to bring in 1v1 arenas. Any profession, any skill set. I'm sure it'll be the most popular by far.

DreamWind · Jan 20, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

Like it really wasn't that hard to fix the formats that people were complaining about, Anet just didn't want to.

You just NOW realize this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Div

Anet just needs to bring in 1v1 arenas. Any profession, any skill set. I'm sure it'll be the most popular by far.

1v1 would have no depth, require no skill, be RPS, and get boring very fast. I think the MOST popular thing would be a team deathmatch with the capacity for full hero teams (with 1-2 humans). People love their heroes nowadays...

Sankt Hallvard · Jan 20, 2010, 03:51 AM // 03:51

I'm with Dreamwind 100%, it's like I had written the post myself. Jonas is slow at realising stuff, but at least it seems he's still around.

The 1v1 deathmatch with heroes would probably be popular for the kids. Personally I would wish for a reborn TA with just a touch of love(along the lines that Jonas proposes). Maybe even with objectives, cap points, shrines. Just adding the hero battles map to the loop could be a fun addition. Point remains, however, this is just a dream.

Corporeal Ghost · Jan 20, 2010, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

1) don't like pugging for groups in organized PvP
2) don't have enough friends online to get an HA or GvG group together
3) hate RA and PvE

These are exactly the reasons myself and the others I play(ed) with play Codex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

Like it really wasn't that hard to fix the formats that people were complaining about, Anet just didn't want to.

So they implemented an arena that fixes itself several times a week with zero additional manpower? I don't see how that isn't a good idea based on their track record. The only problem is it's two or three years late. As far as I can tell, the only beef people really have with codex is that ANet removed TA (and Hero Battles, but we all know my feelings on that one) to implement it.

As for your proposed TA fixes, the overpowered necromancer is at the heart of the short-term fix; all of the stuff you mentioned is just a symptom of that one bar being insane. The long-term fix requires a complete overhaul, just like the rest of the game. Hero battles needed more than an overhaul; it needed a new game entirely at minimum.

Revelations · Jan 20, 2010, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

As far as I can tell, the only beef people really have with codex is that ANet removed TA...

Four-copies-of-<Insert broken shit here> day really doesn't help it. Allowing duplicate copies of skills was both a design flaw, and a major shortcut. Also, though not entirely symptomatic of codex alone, dervishes.

Aside from the whole dead game thing, I do believe there is another reason for codex being utterly inactive now though.

It was immediately apparent on the announcement of sealed (to anyone with half a brain) that your average PvEr was still going to get farmed in this arena, - perhaps moreso than anywhere else - yet they flocked in their hundreds anyway in the very early days. However, your bottom feeders need something to thrive on, or they're going to die out - which became immediately very obvious after the first few days of the arena's existence. I'm pretty sure that your average baddie isn't going to enjoy getting shitstomped in 80-90% of his matches, and from this point there are two main courses of action he may take. He may continue to play the arena despite his frustration, or he may leave. Given the fact that getting better at the game isn't enough of a motivator or reward for most people, a larger portion will likely choose the latter. Without any foreseeable reward for continued play other than the enjoyment of it (Which doesn't amount to much when you're terrible and lose 90% of your matches.) then codex was never going to support the lowest rung of the PvP community.

Of course, from this it follows that with the baddies gone, the next lowest rank is due for a shitstomping. And the cycle will simply recur until all you have left is the few stragglers who decided to hang on after their given levels died out.

I am against the idea of terrible play being rewarded on most levels, and I am also not particularly thrilled with farming bad players between intermittent higher-level teams. However, without incentives to play, the entire PvP community of a given arena will die from the baddies up. The PvErs who flocked to the arena should have been given their coveted shinies - in what form I care not. With some form of compensation for the slaughter they endure in codex, I consider it very likely that they will endure the arena anyway, concurrently providing sustenance for higher tier teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Div

Anet just needs to bring in 1v1 arenas. Any profession, any skill set. I'm sure it'll be the most popular by far.

I consider it pretty RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sad that this is likely true.

urania · Jan 20, 2010, 02:11 PM // 14:11

As long as no monks or any kind of heal skill (excluding self heals like ether feast, heal signet etc) are allowed..........

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 20, 2010, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I'm fairly certain Divine's point was that 1v1 is by default easier to set up and will thus have more players.

Regardless of the 'tactical depth' and 'skillfullness' involved.

DreamWind · Jan 21, 2010, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I'm fairly certain Divine's point was that 1v1 is by default easier to set up and will thus have more players.

Regardless of the 'tactical depth' and 'skillfullness' involved.

I bet deathmatch with heroes would be more popular. Heroes have taken over this game. Just my 2 cents.